19 Responses to 9rules Network Updates Blog Design

1. Mike Rundle Said,

   January 16, 2006 @ 3:13 pm

   “I don’t know about you, but most of the sites I read have been integrated into the 9rules Network. I knew them before they had the badge, and they have not changed since adding it. So what has 9rules done? I am sure it does help some sites get discovered, but I have not become a reader of anything they have added, just because they deemed it worthy to be in their Network.”

   I’m not sure I’m totally understanding your critique, so please let me know if I’m off-track at all. The goal if the 9rules Network is to group the best weblogs in the world (some of which you already read) together to help 1) give exposure to the independent web, and our passionate members, and 2) provide our readers with a way of finding better web content. Our members have told us that their traffic has increased steadily after they were brought into 9rules — not like Digg traffic, but steady, RSS subscribers who come back everyday. We’re trying to highlight the best content so it’s easier to find, so I’m not sure why you say that you don’t see the point of 9rules. You did submit your site to us a few times, so did you find value in 9rules then, but not now? Let us know if you feel we’ve faltered or how we let you down, so we can take the necessary steps to improve
   Best,
   Mike

2. David Said,

   January 16, 2006 @ 4:54 pm

   Wow…The Mike Rundle! Here? Commenting!?

   First let me say, thank you for taking time out of what must be a busy schedule to stop by my little corner of the web.

   I understand the goal of the 9rules Network, and as much as it makes sense and probably works for the most part, my comment is coming from a more web experienced point of view. Most of the sites listed in the network were sites I read on a daily basis before they were added. And just because a site was added, does not mean I am going to read it, and infact I have not added any new daily reads due to the site being features on 9rules.

   I think there are others out there like me, who see 9rules as nothing more of a link index of their favourite sites, which in itself I suppose provides usefulness, but I think that what you all do with the network over the next year will say far more than just establishing the network as you did over the last year.

   I have no doubt that the traffic on the sites added has increased due to the fact that there is a certain elite status assigned to anyone added to the list, and thus those looking to be one of the elite will constantly follow every move made by those on the list, as though they were fans of a movie star.

   I submitted my site because I wanted the increase in traffic and to share in part the little bit of fame that every member seems to get. I thought that I was deserving of a piece of the pie that is the 9rules Network, but alas it did not work out that way. It makes sense though because this site is too personal to be something that people would want to read daily, though I have worked on improving my content.

   I know you think you are providing value by having the Network, but it has to do more to be considered a real value in the blogging community. Most blog networks build something. They take nothing but a domain and some software, and build a blog. They go from no users to thousands of users. What has 9rules built other than a link list?

   I would be interested in seeing some of the talent that the network has in creating blogs that are more conversational between bloggers on similar topics, such as getting a few gamers together on a 9rules blog talking about gaming and games and to see their differing opinion on one site.

   I know you are going to be providing an Advertising service for 9rules members, but if the community is so exclusive, then how can the average Jo ever expect to take advantage of the good things you are doing? Maybe a reduced percentage based Ad system for non-9rules members would be great?

   Anyways, take all this in stride. I do see some value looking at it from another person’s point of view, but for me, the value is more in what you all will do with the Network, than what you have currently done, as like I wrote, I already read most of the great sites in your network.

3. Scrivs Said,

   January 16, 2006 @ 5:25 pm

   I think this is a case David where you are thinking our site should be all things to all people and we all know with any good business you just can’t do things that way. As great as it would be to please everyone when it comes to our site it probably caters more towards readers who aren’t knee deep in the blogosphere as you and I are. Really though I would be suprised if you went through all the sites and didn’t find a new one you liked.

   As for the claims that all we have created is a link list, sure I can see where you are coming from if you see no value in the site in the first place. But to us we have created an infrastructure to allow writers to get to know each other better and allow for better interaction. We put together a forum that gets over 100+ posts per day (not bad for the amount of people participating). We have helped members find brand new full-time jobs and freelancers land new projects. For readers we have connected many of them to sites they were not aware of and probably wouldn’t have been if the Network didn’t exist.

   To us that’s much more than a link list. As for providing more value and members interacting on one site (your video games example) I think you will see that with our Communities. In fact you will see it soon with our Philosophy Community as they have already begun to setup bi-monthly reading discussions.

   To say we have to do more to be of value to the blogging community really confuses me because I am looking at these emails from members and readers who thank us for what we have done. We have provided a platform for readers and writers to connect with very little required besides killer content and placing a logo on your site. If for one reason or another I was forced to stop working on 9rules tomorrow I could walk away proud of what we have accomplished.

   However, we aren’t even close to being done yet. In fact, you should be seeing some new things tomorrow (as you already saw the updated blog design). In the end maybe we will build something that provides some sort of value to everyone, but for now just doing that one person at a time is fine with us (that sounded kind of corny).

4. Mike Rundle Said,

   January 16, 2006 @ 5:31 pm

   Haha, “The Mike Rundle”. Thanks for the ego boost David
   “I know you think you are providing value by having the Network, but it has to do more to be considered a real value in the blogging community. Most blog networks build something. They take nothing but a domain and some software, and build a blog. They go from no users to thousands of users. What has 9rules built other than a link list?”

   I definitely understand what you’re saying. Weblog networks that work off a different model are actually creating new blogs, whereas 9rules partners with existing, independent other sites. However, what we are creating is the centralized location to read, filter, peruse, and browse these fantastic members (well over 100) without having to open a screen full of tabs, or add 100 RSS feeds to your feed reader of choice.

   I’m not sure if you noticed, but we’re actively caching all our member content now, and soon we’ll be providing member profiles for all members (data on their site, who writes for it, etc.) as well as member archives, so you can browse all our member content (past and present) from one centralized location. The goal for 9rules is to facilitate the growth of the independent web by making it more visible and accessible, and I think we’re doing a decent job so far
   Paul just left a great comment above mine that said everything I wanted to say and more.

5. Scrivs Said,

   January 16, 2006 @ 5:39 pm

   It seems the Philosophy Reading Group has kicked off today.

6. David Said,

   January 16, 2006 @ 6:03 pm

   I did not expect so much attention from my thoughts on the network…

   Most of the improvements on the web only is for the 9rules group, which is great to be able to provide such great services for them, but it would be nice to have more transpency on what you are doing in the Network. It would be great PR to let others know who is getting value from the network and how they are experiencing that value. You mention here that they increase in traffic, and that is a given, but how does that really help them? What do they see because of that increase in traffic? What services do you provide for them?

   I totally agree that 9rules is not made for me, or others like me, as we are positioned between the regular/casual blog citizen, and the 9rules quality super star.

   I do think though that you don’t have to be everything to everyone, but I feel that there are a large group of us out there that you could capitalize on. Most of us are aspiring to be considered worthy of 9rules, as if nothing else 9rules is considered an elite list. What would we need to do? I know you would hate to boil it down to a formula, but it would be helpful to know more about how you decide who is worthy and why. It would be nice to have people not in the 9rules community to feel special. Maybe you could highlight those with promise that are not in the Network? I am sure you have many ideas for the 9rules Network, and I think it could be a powerful force on the internet, but you will have to be careful what you do with the power, and weight of the names under your banner.

   I did not know about the forum. Is it for 9rules members only? How does it help those that post in it? Is there any sites that have not participated in the network other than including the badge on their site?

   I feel like with your comment and Mike’s comment I can understand more where they network is going, and I can see how valuable it will be by 2007 if worked correctly.

   Which readers have thanked you for what you have done? What have you really done for the readers that could not have been done with a link list page?

   However, we aren’t even close to being done yet. In fact, you should be seeing some new things tomorrow (as you already saw the updated blog design).

   And I can’t believe you would make me salivate over what you have planned tomorrow. You tease!

   I’m not sure if you noticed, but we’re actively caching all our member content now

   So you are going to basically be a backup of their site? Or like a bloglines version? Won’t this effect the amount of traffic passed over to their site? If I can read it on 9rules, why go to the original site?

   I am amazed that you both took the time to come and comment here. It really says a lot about your character, and your availablility.

   I am hopeful that 9rules grows into something that helps your members first, but does not exclude others from feeling the 9rules effect in one way or another.

7. David Said,

   January 16, 2006 @ 6:07 pm

   Collaboration is a great thing for your community as there is a large pool of talent, and multiple people listed with the same type of sites, and thus the same interests. To see what they come up with together should be the biggest focus of your network, as it could also be the most profitable for 9rules, and the writers.

   I look forward to seeing what the Philosophy Reading Group comes up with.

8. Scrivs Said,

   January 16, 2006 @ 6:58 pm

   With regards to caching, this simply involves excerpts from the sites. It wouldn’t make sense for us to post full entries up on our site and not pass the traffic to the members. You can go to 9rules and look through the archives of excerpts to see if there is something that will catch your fancy and if so you click on it and are sent to the member’s site.

   Yes the forum is for members only as we feel this is the best way to provide them with a sense of community. Sure there might be an elitist aspect to all of this, but we have to differentiate ourselves from other places that accept every single blog on the planet.

   We have a thread going on right now in the forum discussing the value 9rules has provided its members and in the future all of this will be made public. It’s easy for us to say what the value is to our members, but it means more to the public when members come out to say what value they have gained from the Network.

   It’s tough to say we need to be more transparent because in this climate I think you tread fine line between announcing stuff early to be transparent and simply being considered as passing hype around. Sorry about the tease, but I just had to let you know that there are more updates in the works. You can’t move forward if you are always standing still.

   I definitely understand where you are coming from with regards to helping sites outside of the Network, but for now I think it’s our duty to do the best job we can for our members before branching out any further.

9. Scrivs Said,

   January 16, 2006 @ 7:00 pm

   Oh and you might want to provide some kind of link to 9rules in your entry since I am sure there are many people out there wondering what 9rules is in the first place :).

10. Mike Rundle Said,

    January 16, 2006 @ 7:42 pm

    “You mention here that they increase in traffic, and that is a given, but how does that really help them? What do they see because of that increase in traffic? What services do you provide for them?”

    How does an increase in traffic help a member? Well, first off, one of the big reasons people join 9rules is to boost their traffic, so if we accomplish that goal for them then I’d consider that helping them out.

    I can’t comment on what they get out of the traffic since traffic means different things to different people. Let me ask you this, why would an increase in traffic be appealing to you? Do you want more RSS subscribers? More links? More comments? Answer that question and I think you’ll have an idea of why our members want more traffic, and why they are happy when 9rules brings that to them.

11. David Said,

    January 16, 2006 @ 8:08 pm

    First off, let me appologize for not putting a link or two in. You guys deserve it, and I would be a little frustrated if someone talked about my site and did not link to it.

    As for the transparency comment, I do agree, but after you do something, feel free to let the world know, so we don’t think of 9rules as the next “evil empire” or something. Sometimes it feels like the only thing that the Network has done is add new members because that is almost all we non-9rules people see from this end. Maybe you could highlight more crossovers as well. I know some members have helped each other out with projects, even if they are not ready to announce the project, it would be nice if 9rules could highlight such partnerships so we can see that there is a community behind that logo of yours.

    The elitest thing works from a marketing sense, so I guess I can’t complain about that too much, but remember that even the super monopoly Microsoft donates money to good causes so if the Network could help others, I think that would be great. And since you will always be adding new things to the network, I don’t think saying that you will once everything is in place is very good…seems like an easy way out of ever having to help the rest of the blogging community.

    On to what Mike said, I totally can connect with what you say here, and the question sort of self answers then doesn’t it? An increase in readership creates an increase in that fuzzy feeling of having content be read, and giving weight behind any opinions the writer might have.

    A great idea is not great if no one ever hears about it. Looking back the question is silly and should more or less be disregarded. But what you did not explain is the service you provide them other than the increase in traffic. They are required to display a link to the 9rules homepage in return for the traffic. What are the other requirements of membership? What do they get in return?

    I know the advertising network is starting soon, but will that make 9rules more money by making the network sites a bit more money than they currently are with Adsense or another competing service? What will you do with that money?

    One of my biggest concerns about the network though is mostly what will happen to it over the coming year, as with the weight it has given the network, it could do just about anything if the bloggers involved signed off.

    Currently, as I originally said, there is not much value in what you guys have built outside the value to the members currently in the network, or the people discovering the network and thus new sites to read.

    But with the talent involved in the network, couldn’t you guys say “Hey, we have helped you all out with a big boost in traffic, we are making xxxx, and we would really appreciate your help.”

    Some would join just because it is you guys who are creating it. Others might join out of obligation to the network. Others still would become the mass marketing machine for whatever is created, making almost anything you guys do an instant success thanks to the smart additions you all made to the network in the past year.

    Evem if someone else had thought of the idea before you, there is probably no way that they could compete with the talent you would have at your disposal, nor the ring of top quality, and popularity sites you guys have in your arsenal.

    I just think no matter the project, there is always a catch, and I have yet to see the other shoe drop for the 9rules Network. Will how you effect the blogging world be positive or negative? I think many people are thinking the same thing I am and currently they are either praising you, ignoring you or putting you down.

    Sidenote: This is probably the most amazing dialogue with the big names of 9rules ever, and would probably do great as its own post/interview.

12. Mike Rundle Said,

    January 16, 2006 @ 10:45 pm

    “I know the advertising network is starting soon, but will that make 9rules more money by making the network sites a bit more money than they currently are with Adsense or another competing service? What will you do with that money?”

    Haha, pay my rent No, seriously, right now I do about 80% client work and 20% 9rules, and if I (and Colin, who has a similar setup) could flip those percentages around because 9rules was paying the bills, we could really do some cool stuff. We all work from home and live pretty regular lifestyles, so no high-rise offices or Bentleys for us.

    “But what you did not explain is the service you provide them other than the increase in traffic. They are required to display a link to the 9rules homepage in return for the traffic. What are the other requirements of membership? What do they get in return?”

    Traffic is the main thing for our members, however we do provide many auxiliary (and probably less tangible) benefits. Here’s a quote from our 9rules About page that explains some other cool stuff about membership:

    “Network members are friendly and helpful, so joining the community will let you talk to them and get advice if needed. Have an idea for an article or a project that you want to share with others? Post it on the private member forum and let all network members check it out and give you feedback. Looking to switch careers? Maybe a 9rules member can help put you in contact with a top executive. Our members include some of the top minds in their industries, so joining puts you in close contact with the most brilliant people on the web.”

    Like I mentioned above, there are some really nice community-oriented positives that come from membership. One is, a big honking support system, not only for technical stuff but also life questions as well. Some of our members are younger and just starting out in the real world (haha, me saying that is funny because I’m only 22), and they have questions about jobs, salaries, companies, etc., that they can post in the forums and have other, more established members help them out. Our members are leaders in their field: professor, creative directors, publishers, writers, you name it, so really good advice is there when it’s needed. Yes, advice like that could be had elsewhere, but 9rules members typically look out for one another in a very non-anonymous way, so that type of support is really nice to see.

    We’ve had some members form business partnerships through meeting in 9rules, trade client work, write blog entries and articles, and even facilitate full-time jobs. My friend Sergio from overcaffeinated hooked up with Johnnie Manzari at slide.com and ended up moving from Mexico to California to join that startup, all because Johnnie put out a call in the forums for that opening. Like I said previously, there are some great tangible benefits to joining 9rules (traffic, comments, more money resulting from traffic, etc.) but there are some even better intangible benefits that you only realize when you come aboard and join the community. We like the idea that people join for one thing, but then find two, three, four more benefits once they get active in the 9rules community.

    “I know some members have helped each other out with projects, even if they are not ready to announce the project, it would be nice if 9rules could highlight such partnerships so we can see that there is a community behind that logo of yours.”

    We’ve been working on a “buzz” or “case study” section of the site for awhile now, which would basically aggregate a lot of interesting stuff our members have told us regarding their membership in 9rules, how it benefitted them, how they feel others would benefit, etc. We’ve been so busy with the new functionality we’re working on (and the ad network) that, honestly, it’s slipped our mind a bit. I’ll use this blog post as a motivator to move that up on my to-do list
    “But with the talent involved in the network, couldn’t you guys say “Hey, we have helped you all out with a big boost in traffic, we are making xxxx, and we would really appreciate your help.”

    Yeah, absolutely. We have many ideas for 9rules projects in the future, and I’m sure that our members will play an integral role in their development, design and evangelism. There are a few really cool projects that our members have started on their own recently (facilitated through our forums) so hopefully those will see the light of day soon. The collaboration is really great to see.

    “I just think no matter the project, there is always a catch, and I have yet to see the other shoe drop for the 9rules Network. Will how you effect the blogging world be positive or negative? I think many people are thinking the same thing I am and currently they are either praising you, ignoring you or putting you down.”

    I think a lot of people are waiting for the other shoe to drop…. for us to start becoming evil, screwing our members over, making the membership requirements more strict, or demanding that our members slap massive banners on their sites, but I can assure that none of those will happen. We started 9rules because we felt the blog world and the design community have been so very gracious to us, that we wanted to give back and somehow create something of value to all bloggers, and hopefully we’re on the track to that goal.

    “Sidenote: This is probably the most amazing dialogue with the big names of 9rules ever, and would probably do great as its own post/interview.”

    I’m going to post this on the 9rules Blog right now
    -Mike

13. 9rules Network Said,

    January 16, 2006 @ 10:58 pm

    Great Conversation About What 9rules Offers Bloggers and Readers

    David Peralty at Phoenixrealm.com posted an entry that originally discussed our updated blog design, but then morphed into a great outsider’s view of 9rules. Paul and I both found the post via our obsessive Technorati-ing, and both tried to answer al…

14. Oskar Syahbana Said,

    January 17, 2006 @ 4:17 am

    Wait, you guys quiting already? I found it interesting on following these arguments between David and 9rules (mike and scrivs)

15. sween Said,

    January 17, 2006 @ 8:42 am

    “They are required to display a link to the 9rules homepage in return for the traffic. What are the other requirements of membership? What do they get in return?”

    Hey David,

    It’s interesting that you consider posting the 9Rules link on the homepage of members’ sites a requirement — from my POV, I always saw that as a benefit of being a member, like having the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval on your site.

    (BTW, how does one apply for Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval? Just wondering.)

    What with the flood of blogs of there, everyone has to find filters that keep out the chaff but still discover new gems. (Ooooh… mixing metaphors…) I’ve always seen the new announcements of 9Rules members as another opportunity to discover new sites without having to go through the bother of wading through the “crap”.

    To throw out another analogy, I see 9Rules serving as a casting director for the web. They see a select (but still large) number of sites, which they winnow down before presenting to us. I know there are other sites out there that they may have not seen that may be just as good or better, and there may be sites that they didn’t select that I would think deserve membership, but as the “director” in this little analogy, I only have so much time and have chosen to use the 9Rules casting director and their judgement as a filter to maximise my time and effort.

    Long-winded enough for ya?

16. Bryan Said,

    January 17, 2006 @ 8:51 am

    As a 9rules member, I just want to second Scrivs comments about all the compliments the network gets and the amount of postings their forum is hit with.

    I am fortunate to have gotten into 9rules VERY early on, during their first round when they accepted something like 20 sites. I have gotten a change to watch the network grow from the infant stage and the forum, though private, has simply exploded.

    One thing about the network, that IMO, gets overlooked is their attention toward the Spanish community. The forum has a complete Spanish section and their website upfront lets people know they can switch between English and Spanish sites. I think that rocks, even though I don’t speak spanish.

    Has my site seen a spike in traffic. I would have to say no. I think I get a decent amount of visitors from 9rules, but because my site is golf related, how many “techies” want to read about golf hehe

    The sports community at 9rules only consists of 2 sites (mine and a diving blog), so I hope in Round 4 submissions there are more sports related sites submitted.

    To touch on Scrivs other comment, the connections, link exchanges, job offers, etc… have been great attributes I have personally witnessed as being a member of the network.

    I can understand where you are coming from with your comments, but it will be very exciting to see what the network brings in another year. Remember, 9rules is still small in terms of professional growth. It needs time to prosper.

17. DL Byron Said,

    January 17, 2006 @ 2:05 pm

    I’m still trying to understand the difference between 9rules and a webring . . .

18. Mike Rundle Said,

    January 18, 2006 @ 2:32 pm

    Good ol’ DL, always bustin’ chops

19. David Said,

    January 18, 2006 @ 2:45 pm

    I think everything that needs to be said here in this post has been said, and so I will be closing comments for this post.